Did ANYONE like Thoroughly Modern Millie?

Does anyone even remember it?

They used to play it on the Disney channel in the 1980s. I remember some parts.

The first 10 minutes are promising. It seems like it might be great fun and then it just absolutely dies.

It's too long and there's way too much Carol Channing. Other than that, I like it.

Yes, R2 is spot on. Starts with a bang and goes down hill from there on. Too bad. MTM was so cute.

They even managed to make handsome James Fox look like an idiot.

i like Millie just fine, (R1)

The ending is too long and the faux Fiddler wedding number is unfortunate, but the clothes are great, Channing and Bea Lillie are a hoot and Julie is quite fun.

I saw a screening as the old Astor Plaza many years ago where Channing did an introduction and that (mostly gay I'm sure) audience ate it up.

I have always loved it. Still do, except for the ridiculous Jewish wedding segment. Just pure fun.

Oh, pook!

Did it have a hit song?

They always had to have a hit song in the '60s.

"Tap, tap, tapioca. Slap, slap, slapioca."

Dick Scanlan, apparently.

It's an awful movie. It's incredibly dull on top of being really bad.

It's much too long, and Edward Fox in drag is pretty nightmarish. Mary Tyler Moore doesn't have enough to do (although she has the weird-funniest moment in the whole movie, when she tries to dance The Tapioca the first time). And Carol Channing overdoes it incredibly--like Ethel Merman and Zero Mostel, she had no idea how to tone down the effects of her stage behavior for the camera.

I love Julie Andrews, though, and I love Bea Lillie.

I like [italic]Thoroughly Modern Millie[/italic].

Teriff! [bold]STENOG[/bold]!

I love it it is an underated musical, so much fun.

Love it! It's not perfect, yes, it's too long, but it's a lot of fun and doesn't deserve to be as maligned as it is. I may watch it today :-)

When Millie and Jimmy were on the ledge you could see 45 Wall Street which was built in 1958.

Oh yeah, that just ruins the whole film! *eye roll*

Yes, I thoroughly enjoyed it.

It marked the beginning of the downward spiral of John Gavin's career.

I loved the opening/title number (how Millie went from out-of-towner to flapper) and the tap dancing elevator routine. Not to mention John Gavin was a stud!

However, I agree, the film drags. Carol Channing is insufferable. How did she get a nomination for that, when it clearly should've been Beatrice Lillie, if anyone from that movie.

The worst offense was the ending. Millie inexplicably gives up her desire to be modern (something she's aspired to throughout the movie) and tells Gavin's character, "I don't want to be your equal anymore. I want to be a woman!" This in the midst of the women's liberation movement. What was their reaction at the time?

I meant Millie (Julie)marries Jimmy (James Fox), and Dorothy (MTM) marries Gavin (Gavin).

BTW: The ending of the stage musical adaptation is even more fucked up. Dorothy ends up with, not Trevor, but with Ching Ho (played by Quasimodo lookalike Jack Soo in the film). Yes, the very same guy who drugged her and was getting ready to sell her to white slavery. Stockholm syndrome much? Oh, and Soo ends up gettin a suitable job, as Trevor's new stenographer.

My daddy wuz a ragtime trombone playuh ...

Sad to be all alone in the world.

Please go, enjoy yourself.

Just a restless girl.

A chequebook by jingo, rich people can nickel and dime you to death!

You did say 35 cents?

Easy on the starch ! Shoo show ... shoo show ... my god you two are a dreary pair.

Millie's first date with Trevor Graydon.

[quote]This in the midst of the women's liberation movement. What was their reaction at the time?

Are you talking about the '60s or the '20s?

John Gavin was one of the most handsome men EVER. the Jon Hamm/Matt Bomer of his day, but better.

The ending of the stage version (musical) is different. Miss Dorothy ends up with one of the Asian henchmen, and the other one ends up with Mr. Graydon (purportedly as his "steno," but we can surmise Trevor was really a closet rice queen.)

I love the movie, but some parts of it do drag. The Chinese laundry lady was my favorite along with Julie.

Could Channing's Oscar nom have been bought? It certainly would have given her a boost in the running for the Dolly movie.

R27, I was talking about the audience of 1967, who watched a movie about a young woman who wanted to go against the grain and be a "modern," as in hold a job and cut her hair and dress in short skirts, a movie that seemed to mirror what was happening in the 1960s -- women no longer wanting to be mere housewives but venture out into the world. Then at the end Millie decides she doesn't want that anymore and states to her lover, "I don't want to be your equal anymore! I want to be a woman!" Meanwhile, loads of women in the 1960s had started the women's lib in order to get equal rights, equal pay, etc. What was their reaction.

Love this film. The music, costumes, sets - all wonderful. Andrews is adorable, Garvin so hot hot hot. I like Channing's performance.

This is a particularly good film to watch at home with 'artistic' friends.

Nobody picketed, although it was thought to be anti-Chinese.

Another thing I don't understand, Millie's supposed to be an American farm/small town girl coming into the big city and yet Andrews sounds like she's from anothah lahnd -- or more precisely, fresh off the boat from England.

Wikipedia states that it won tony's and that it's become a favorite for high school productions, so obviously a lot of people loved it.

I loved James Fox in drag. Gorgeous!

Love the elevator dance sequences. So stylish, campy, and fun in such a cramped space! And Mary Tyler Moore!

I saw John Gavin LIVE AND IN PERSON in the National Tour of Seesaw.

R36 That's the musical (stage), not the movie. Different in many ways.

R41 don't be silly, Millie is Millie

The last time I saw a local, amateur production of the musical, they had two Latinos playing the Asian henchmen.

[quote]they had two Latinos playing the Asian henchmen.

Not unlike the forty Latinos who usually represent the natives of Siam in THE KING AND I.

I saw in in 1967. Hated it.

It's on TCM tomorrow night 11:00pm EST.

I didn't think the music was good at all.

r28, Connie Towers agrees.

I like the opening scene and then Angela Lansbury's live performance in some award show.

r38, i thought i was the only one who loved the elevator scenes; esp the one where Millie says "I'm interviewing bosses - I can type 30 words a minute; I'm in demand!"

[quote]SOY SAUCE!

I love the soy sauce scene.

"Must write and tell Mother."

"DO that!"

If this mess had been a hit, MTM would not have done her classic TV series, meaning no Rhoda and without Rhoda, no me either.

R552, MILLIE was a hit, one of the top ten movies of 1967, a pretty historic year.

Sadly, it was also Andrews' last hit of such a good run -- MARY POPPINS, THE AMERICANIZATION OF EMILY, THE SOUND OF MUSIC, TORN CURTAIN, HAWAII. The following year would have her first failure (STAR!) and the beginning of the end of her film career for a while.

Were Torn Curtain and Hawaii hits?

I think not.

HAWAII was the #2 movie of 1966, and TORN CURTAIN was #20. CURTAIN had a production budget of $3 million and grossed $13 million, so pure profit.

Here's the list of the highest grossing films of 1966:

The whole film looked brown.

I loved it too! Though Ive not met many people who have even heard of it at this point.

r59, one day, there may be.

[quote]i'm good for another 500 posts

No one dislikes it strongly enough to start a thread bitching about it.

"No one dislikes it strongly enough to start a thread bitching about it."

Never underestimate the capacity of people who have nothing better to do.

I remember seeing it at the movie theater in '70 when mom stuck me there so she could screw her boyfriend all afternoon. It was on a double ticket with "Paint Your Wagon."

I liked the song, "1922" and Mary Tyler Moore's hairdo.

I was 12 at the time, didn't know about the "roaring 20s."

Thought it was an OK movie. Not the greatest musical, but OK.

[quote]I need to find out how to quote properly

You type [ and then you type the word quote in lower case and then type ] -- no space between the brackets and word.

After that, you add the quote. You do NOT have to close the quote.

After your sentence or sentences are in place, hit your Enter/return twice. The stuff you typed before the double Enter will be in a box.

[quote}You type [ and then you type the word quote in lower case and then type ] -- no space between the brackets and word.

After that, you add the quote. You do NOT have to close the quote.

After your sentence or sentences are in place, hit your Enter/return twice. The stuff you typed before the double Enter will be in a box.

r67, if this works, you're my hero (don't get a big head, i don't get out much)...

R69 --- look at your bracket

You screwed by by typing } instead of ]

[quote]Mary!!

I know!! This way we'll definitely get to 556 replies f I can't figure this *$#@*&%$ thing out...

Hey - nailed it! Well kind of. I screwed up the copy on my Mac, so I had to type in "Mary!!".

Just to scare you a little bit, I'm a senior manager in the testing area of a large US Bank. Yes, really.

Bur r67, thanks you... mown back to the film

r32 can't understand that it is set in the 1920s when women wanted to be free and modern after the great war and do away with their long hair and cumbersome clothes. There may be parallels with the 1960s but 1960s girls wouldnt be expecting a 1920s parody to reflect their situation.

James Fox is utterly adorable as Jimmy, and looks neat in drag goo. It was quite a change for him after the dramatics of The Servant, The Chase, King Rat etc. He is now one of our senior actors here in England, I saw him last year, in his 70s, attending the 50th anniversary screening of The Servant - great on the big screen - to launch its blu-ray release. His co-stars Sarah Miles and Wendy Craig were also there to talk about the Servant - how often does that happen, 50 years later.

Fox's son Laurence also acts on tv and stage here and though he has a big dick, isnt as good looking as his dad.

Dame Julie was in London a few months ago to promote her taking about her career, but all anybody wanted to talk to her about, on the various chat shows, was Sound of Music and Mary Poppins (in the wake of Saving Mr Banks). Its like everything else she did - even Victor/Victoria and Millie - never existed.

While it must be great to have 2 such iconic films as Poppins & SOM in one's back catalogue, it must be a bitch having to talk about them all the time as though nothing else you did is important.

How true r78 -even Julie's stage career (The Boy Friend, Camelot, My Fair Lady) count for nothing now.

I wonder if Julie is one of the few (or only?) leading lady Burton did not bang ... they did not like her on My Fair Lady either, Moss Hart had to spent a lot of time coaching her to get the part right.

[quote]The following year would have her first failure (STAR!) and the beginning of the end of her film career for a while.

Bea Lillie claimed that SHE was the reason STAR! was a flop. Bea and Gertrude Lawrence had been roommates on tour, early in their careers, and Bea was pivotal in many of the most important and funniest events in Gertrude's life. The producers didn't get Bea's permission to portray her on screen, so she held tight. According to Bea, Gertrude Lawrence's story was nothing without her.

The commentary on the STAR! DVD is very telling. So much time and money went into that production which did have fantastic costumes and art direction. And it flopped. I think part of the problem was that audiences expected to see a happy, sunny Julie and her portrayal of Gertrude Lawrence was anything but.

The 25th reunion event for Star was very amusing, with them all carrying on as if it were a lost masterpiece they are resurrecting. But the film didn't know how to present Lawrence to the 60s audience, she was a total bitch who only sleeps with rich men, as depicted in the film, so she is not very sympathetic, and the staged numbers do not integrate with the storyline, as we expected in musicals then.

As flashy and glitzy as the " Jenny" number was in the film, it was totally false. Lawrence never performed it that way twirling around and spinning all over the place.

I have it. It hits flat for audiences because it's too long for a sustained camp-spoof. There's a reason the original style died in the first place.

But it's silly and smart and has some great numbers. Andrews' best in-the-scene movie song - "Poor Butterfly" - is in it. Lovely and funny and sad. Channing is alarming and perfect. Moore never died better - she was not, after all, a dramatic actress of any depth, and her playing oblivious was very nice.

And any chance to see Bea Lillie is worth the entire time of the film.

So I watch it every five years. And enjoy it. And put it away.

[quote]Lawrence never performed it that way twirling around and spinning all over the place.

Let's be perfectly frank: Gertie could never sing as well as Julie Andrews could. She couldn't even sing as well as Marni Nixon.

R17, you should bring that factoid over to the "Stage and Film Anachronisms" thread.

If you're in the North Texas area, "Thoroughly Modern Millie" is showing at the Magnolia Theatre in Dallas next Tuesday, 9/16. I've never seen it, so I'm happy, at least, that the first time I see it will be on the big screen.

(The Magnolia has been showing classic movies every Tuesday night for nearly 2 years now and I'm loving it; getting to see these movies on the big screen -- and with an appreciative audience -- is phenomenal [most times, the theater is packed -- "My Fair Lady," "All About Eve," and "Valley of the Dolls" were near sell-outs and 65 seats are already sold for tomorrow night's "Doctor Zhivago"]; attached is the schedule for the most recent series; the next series will apparently include the likes of "The Women," "Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?," "Once Upon a Time in the West," "Breakfast at Tiffany's," "La Cage Aux Folles," "The Sound of Music," "Harold & Maude," "Grand Prix," and "Last Tango in Paris.")

I enjoyed it when I was a teenager. I thought it was so cool that Julie Andrews and Mary Tyler Moore had to tap dance to make the elevator go up or down.

I remember Carol Channing's number where she's singing while simultaneously being blown out of a canon, and I thought, "Wow, that is pretty talented!"

I enjoyed the fight scene at the end where Carol Channing would sing low notes to break the bad guys' weapons.

[quote]I enjoyed the fight scene at the end where Carol Channing would sing low notes to break the bad guys' weapons.

That must have been right after I had corn.

On paper this looked like a great movie. But it's dull and heavy-handed in execution.

It's easy to forget how big a star Hello, Dolly! made Carol Channing in the mid-sixties. Her absurd southern accent was au courant via LBJ and Lady Bird, and she was their official songstress. (Years later Lady Bird frankly declined to attend the installation of a Hello, Dolly! exhibit at the LBJ museum telling Carol Channing that she could not bear to hear that tune one more time.

You have to hand it to Ross Hunter for presenting Bea Lillie even if she isn't as sharp or well-used as she might have been. I presume Bea either didn't wish to do a musical number or else she was considered too "past it" to be given one. Perhaps they had to appease the younger and more vital Carol Channing. Why else wouldn't the divine Lillie be given a song?

The resolution of the plot is dumb and unsatisfying. The big finale is a dud. The treatment of the Asian duo feels more like real racism than a spoof of the way Asians were presented in the 20s. The very success of this film probably helped seal the doom of Star! and Darling Lili. Millions of movie goers left this film liking Julie Andrews movies a little less than they did when they went in.

Thanks r88 - Dallas here also. I'll have to check it out.

I saw it when it came out in 1967; at a movie theater on the boardwalk in Atlantic City. I remember that I liked Bea Lillie & Carol Channing' performances. I also recall that I had to keep asking my mother what was on the silent film title inserts since I couldn't read.

I have the album. No longer one of my favorites but I loved it when I was 5.

Also saw it at the United Artists theater (since demolished) in Chicago loop in 1967 for my 9th birthday. I was such a little queen. I remember thinking it was pretty long but in the 60s that was the trend with musicals. Roadshow, reserve seats, intermission, big event. Read later that Bea Lillie had Alzheimer's at that point and was pretty out of it for most of the filming. She was also incontinent and was apparently peeing into her diaper throughout the filming. But she is one of the best things in the film. Love the scene during the friendship dance when she's trying to drug Miss Dorothy with the punch and the glass keeps being moved around. Also when she gets out of the taxi in Chinatown at the end and the cab driver says "hey moneybags" and she says "Pook". Who could forget her bouncing head at the end of the film over the title song. That was bizarre with her facial expressions every time her head hit a word.

The musical is in youtube

Could Bea Lillie actually have legally forbidden STAR from portraying her in the film?

As a famous person, wouldn't the law have been on the producers' side if they wanted her as a character in the film?

I imagine it was more a case of who in the world could they have cast to play such an incredibly unique performer?

And perhaps they realized if they found the right actress, she would be far more interesting than Julie as Gertie.

Who would you have cast as Bea in 1967?

[quote] Who could forget her bouncing head at the end of the film over the title song. That was bizarre with her facial expressions every time her head hit a word.

I had forgotten about that but now that you've mentioned it I see it all too vividly.

[quote]Could Bea Lillie actually have legally forbidden STAR from portraying her in the film?

Yes, she could have. That's the reason you often see disclaimers on TV and movies that say "all characters depicted here are fictional and not intended to represent anyone alive or dead, etc." or words to that effect.

It played TCM last night, and I made it through about the first hour. I remembered it being better than it appeared last night. It's overdone for something so slight and silly.

R96, when they were making BONNIE AND CLYDE, Warren Beatty (who was also the producer) contacted the real Blanche Barrow in order to get her to sign a release form to use her name. Bonnie, Clyde, and Buck (Blanche's husband and Clyde's brother) were fair game, because they were dead historical figures. Gang members W.D. Jones (who was present during the infamous shootouts with the law and left the gang after Buck was killed and Blanche was captured) and Henry Methvin (who joined the gang after Bonnie and Clyde raided Eastham Prison and whose father later betrayed the duo to the law) were merged into one character, C.W. Moss. Jones later tried to sue the filmmakers, because he took offense that people would think he had betraayed the couple, but he didn't have a leg to stand on, since the character was a composite.

When he met her, Beatty laid on the charm really thick. Blanche was very taken by him, naturally, but she later said that the screenplay he presented her was different from what ended up on the screen. She forever hated the portrayal of her as a screeching ninny -- she said after she watched the film, "They made me look like a screaming horse's ass!" -- but to be fair, when Blanche's own memoirs (written while she was in prison) were discovered stashed away decades later and published in 2004, she portrayed herself in the exact same way that Estelle Parsons played her, so the filmmakers weren't off the mark. I think she was just embarrassed when she saw the film, because the audience ended up hating her.

Here's a behind the scenes short clip released before the release of the film. Pretty cool.

The "refrigerator moment" or "ice box moment" as Alfred Hitchcock termed it is the inconsistency in a movie that suddenly hits you an hour or two later while you are home rummaging for a snack. TMM's "ice box moment" is the realization that out of nowhere Millie becomes a singer for hire just to sing at a Jewish wedding that adds nothing to the plot. She's a secretary on the make for the rest of the movie. Why is she singing at a wedding?

The real answer is that the 1960s were the heyday of the Jewish "theater party ladies." These were fund-raisers who bought up blocks of tickets to Broadway musicals and re-sold them at higher prices to finance various charitable causes. When movie musicals began being presented as road-show attractions, the theater party ladies turned to them as well. The gratuitous insertion of the wedding scene was a sop to attract their interest. One can only hope it paid off in money as it does little to aid a movie that rambles on for two hours and eighteen minutes not counting overture and intermission.

So STAR could have had a character like Bea Lillie that wasn't named Bea Lillie?

Too bad. She would have added some much-needed comic relief.

r102: Critic Ethan Mordden describes that scene as inserted as if "by gunpoint."

R102 is spot on. I remember seeing full page ads for road shows in the NY Times. There was always a theater party contact person name at the bottom next to the ticket prices and mail order form.

Anyone remember when The Times had a special Strawhat Supplement of every summer stock theater with upcoming productions and casts?

[106] Sure do remember that Straw Hat supplement in The Times. Always looked forward to seeing it. Myrna Loy, Van Johnson and Joan Bennett were always doing something. Even Jayne Mansfield did Gentlemen Prefers Blonds.

[quote] Even Jayne Mansfield did Gentlemen Prefers Blonds.

That was Tab Hunter.

[quote]So STAR could have had a character like Bea Lillie that wasn't named Bea Lillie?

Yes. When GYPSY was in out-of-town tryouts, June Havoc decided she didn't like the way her character was treated in the show. She told David Merrick to change the script or else be sued.

He told her to take a hike and promptly changed the character's name from Baby June to Baby Claire. For a short while the cast kept stumbling over the name change, referring to the character as Dainty Clune or Baby Jaire. Once Havoc realized that she was effectively being eliminated from her own life story, she relented and allowed herself to be portrayed by name.

Ruby Keeler refused permission to be portrayed by name in The Al Jolson Story, although she had famously been married to him. Her character is given another name in the Jolson biography on the hopeful assumption that viewers will know she's supposed to be Keeler.

[quote]Ruby Keeler refused permission to be portrayed by name in The Al Jolson Story, although she had famously been married to him. Her character is given another name in the Jolson biography on the hopeful assumption that viewers will know she's supposed to be Keeler.

How many people under 50 know who Al Jolson was? When I was in Hollywood 13 years ago walking to the line for a revival screening of [italic]2001: A Space Odyssey[/italic] (the guys in that movie were seriously hot, truth be told), there were two black guys who saw Al Jolson's handprint at Chinese Theatre, and they didn't know who he was.

What's funny, R111, is that the great Jolson was half-forgotten even by the late 1940s. The Jolson Story film revived his career briefly before he died in 1951. His hammy old-fashioned singing style became retro-chic among the oddly mature youngsters of the post-WWII era.

As for Keeler, when she divorced Jolson in the late 30s, she turned her back on show business altogether. She married a rich man, moved far away from Hollywood and had a bunch of kids. Her older children were floored when they learned in their early teens that their mother had once been a huge movie star. She had never mentioned it before.

They were no Jo Stafford.

Hey, r112 - did you hear the interview with Keeler made when the 1971 Cast Album of "No, No, Nanette" was recorded? She said that her grandchildren thought she was "the grandma who tapdanced in the kitchen."

Also, for Bea Lillie fans, I notice that "An Evening with Beatrice Lillie" is available on Amazon. That album, and "Auntie Bea" are two of my all-time favorites.

Bea won a "Special Award" Tony in 1953 for her performance.

For a good read, her autobiography, "Every Other Inch a Lady" can be picked up on Amazon for a song.

[quote]there were two black guys who saw Al Jolson's handprint at Chinese Theatre, and they didn't know who he was.

Maybe if they'd done the handprints in black makeup, with white cuffs ...

Bea Lillie had lost her mind already when she was filming Millie. Actually, she started to loose it during the run of High Spirits in 1963.

I've never done this before, I promise. But it is time....

SHREEEEEE-----EEEEEEEE------EEEEEE----K!!!

"Millie" was a hugely successful movie in its first release. As for the sexist ending, if you will, the women's movement was only starting to hit the mainstream in 1967. I remember the packed audience roaring with laughter when Bea Lillie's face was first visible in that opening scene. Also, less edifying, I recall a little girl asking her grandfather what "white slavery" was, and he described it as girls being brought from the islands to this country to work as maids.

Who could have played Bea Lillie in 1967? (In response to R94/95.) I think Tammy Grimes was young enough. Or why not Sian Phillips, who played a (somewhat) similar character in "Goodbye Mr. Chips" the musical? Actually, someone said that Sian Phillips would have been more like Gertrude Lawrence herself in "Star!" Suppose she had been cast?

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