Was Madonna actually thought of a sex symbol in the 80s and early 90s by regular guys outside hollyw

As a millennial, I know she got a lot of dick from celebrities, producers/staff and artsy/creative types. I'm not talking about them. I'm asking did guys in their teens, 20s, 30s to 40s during that period outside the industry think of her as a sexy, hot, desirable woman? Did high schoolers, college students, blue and white collar professionals have her posters and magazine photos as jerkoff material?

Just thinking back at that time, there were a lot of very beautiful women in the music industry. Once Sheena Easton and Belinda Carlisle grew out their tragic tomboyish early 80s hairstyles, their beauty shined. There were also sexy musicians like Susanna Hoffs and Sheila E. You had stunners like Vanity, Apollonia and Vanessa Williams. Samantha Fox was a brief thing too. Whitney didn't market herself as a sex symbol but obviously was quite beautiful. Paula Abdul was cute. Janet didn't start the sexy game until the early 90s. For guys who liked slightly older, Debbie Harry, Olivia Newton John and Cher were still looking quite good.

Was Madonna considered hot or hotter than all of them? Or were most of her fans back then still women and gays?

Not really. I only ever heard of guys finding her hot in movies and on tv. Most real life guys thought she was ugly and had bushy unibrow. Not attractive when there were real supermodels and sex symbols to whack off over.

Madonna was old ladies and gay men’s idea of an attractive woman. It’s funny that old ladies and Fish worshiping gays are the only fans she has left in 2020

My straight brothers were definitely interested after "Like a Virgin" probably my father too.

Obviously bleached blonde hair signals availability.

The woman does not to be beautiful or hot. Because the hair says she is down for it.

R1 she had a bushy unibrow? lmao

Guys in high school had her posters pinned to their lockers

As well as Kirstie Brinkley, Joan Collins, Samantha Fox, Phoebe Cates

Joan Collins in the 80s? Guys thought that 50 year old was hot?

I just remember guys laughing at her and saying she was a whore (this was after the Erotica album). They didn’t say anything about wanting to fuck her or that she was hot.

a straight HS friend of mine wanted to borrow my “I’m Breathless” CD case (I love more than half of the songs, shoot me) so he could “get off on them titties”

Madonna stole her look from the much more talented Debbie Harry.

Joan Collins posed for Playboy and it was a hot item among straight guys.

Joan is a pretty woman and aged very well but even here you could see she wasn't young lol

I'm not a Madonna stan, but I'm watching her movie "Dangerous Game" with Harvey Keitel on Vudu (for free - download on Roku or if you are a millennial like me, on PS4) and SHE. IS. FUCKING. AMAZING.

I'm blown away by her performance. This is a a weird/artsy/film-within-a-film and she is so fucking good. Amazing acting by Madonna. Never would've thought. She and Harvey are fucking ON PAR and fucking delivering in every fucking scnee. I have friends who are casting directors and producers and I'm going to tell them to develop some sort of murder/intrigue 10 episode prestige streaming series (netflix/hulu/hbo), offer it to Madonna, she takes it, ,and give her $7.5 million. With the right director, she could definitely get an Emmy. And bitches, I WILL GET PRODUCER CREDIT.

But yes, "Dangerous Game" is THAT FUCKING GOOD. If you are a bitch in disbelief, please buy the Blu-Ray or watch on Vudu today. Not sure how much longer it's going to be free. It's an obscure film and hard to find. Enjoy. She is fucking bringing it.

In 1985, Playboy published old nudes of Madonna and it was a big deal and sold millions of copies.

She was never considered a great beauty, but some straight men find the slutty look attractive so she did have some admirers.

80s women that straight men really did lust after were people like Michelle Pfeiffer, Phoebe Cates, Brooke Shields, Daryl Hannah, Kim Basinger, etc.

In the early 90s, when her "Sex" book came out, I think regular guys just kind of gave a collective "ewwwwww" and she was done as a sex symbol.

SHE thought all the guys in the world were jacking off to her videos. They actually were not. Her fan base has always and forever been straight women and gay men.

[quote]if you are a millennial like me, on PS4

Oh, now millennials invented gaming consoles.

Madonna was considered a total sex symbol until the Erotica-era. She was no longer young enough to pull it off. Peak sexy Madonna was in the Like a Virgin video, with the brown hair and pushed-up titties. But yeah, once the SEX book came out, she was old news for everyone but the gays.

MY 30 year old brother went nuts to see her nude pics... but seriously? No. She was an "oh, look," and it's over kind of thing. What would she do next, not she's my sex symbol. Madonna was a parody of a sex symbol.

My older brother had a poster of her in the 80s. I don't think she was ever considered attractive, but MTV was new and she was uncommonly slutty and provocative for her time.

I don't think her face is what made her sexy to a lot of people, and I don't think it was even necessarily *because* of a super-sexualized appearance. She had a sexual energy and attitude, and she was completely unapologetic about being very sexual, having sex, and being dominant. All that stuff was really , really provocative, taboo and unconventional at the time she did it.

I like a lot of Madonna's older music a lot because it's part of the soundtrack of my life, and it's frankly just really good dance-pop music (despite often lame lyrics). She performed her music well. I have always found her personality/persona off putting on the best days and sometimes completely revolting.

But just last week, one of my Facebook friends posted this 1990 Nightline interview she did, and I am REALLY impressed by it. This Madonna seems to be long, long gone now, but she was fucking smart, pretty articulate, uncompromising and she would not be shamed by this guy in any way. She stood her ground and made very good points, and she wasn't coy about being proud of herself for making an opportunity out of MTV's decision not to air her video. She also seemed more honest here than most probably would have been: she admits that part of the reason she made the video as she did was because she had gotten other salacious things passed by MTV censors and the figured she could get away with it again. But overall, it's what she wanted to do, she did it, they said no, and she said, OK, I'll try something else--but no one at a network that airs graphic violence and regularly degrades women is going to convince me I should be ashamed of being a horny bitch with a whip.

No, the straight men thought she was too harsh Italian looking and not cool musically. No straight man would’ve been caught dead listening to “Like A Virgin.” It was a joke. The teen girls and some gays liked her, but she had the overexposure of the Kardashian’s of today and was just annoying to most. Debby Harry and Chrissie Hynde were the straight guys cup of rock n roll tea. Never Pat Benatar or Cyndi Lauper either.

OP - I don't think straight men ever lusted after Cher at any age. Dressing like a slut doesn't automatically make one attractive.

i heard more flattering comments about Tina Turner than i did about Madonna during those times.

who knew that straight men were discerning about song&dance talent?

Around the time of the Vogue video release, a straight man of my acquaintance remarked that Madonna had “perfectly shaped breasts”. That’s the only mention of her among straight men that I knew that I can recall.

Debbie Harry, Belinda Carlisle, Susannah Hoffs, Sheila E, Vanity...those are some of the performers that straight men I knew thought were hot.

I remember when "Justify My Love" came out, a classmate in high school said "I would justify her love!"

Straight young men were probably attracted to her with more of her clothes on (before erotica). Her version of sexy was always crass and without any sensuality. She was no Janet (demure, classy sexy) or Pamela Anderson (extreme, hot, sweet sexy).

She probably was attractive to older men too I.e. men in there 30s and 40s when she was in her 20s. But ultimately it was gay men and feminist lesbians like Camille Paglia that liked her like.

Beavis and Butthead still wanted to fuck her in 1994

One of the very few times Madonna comes across as genuinely sexy in my opinion.

[quote] She was no Janet (demure, classy sexy).

HAHAHAHA! Ok Janbot.

Madonna has big boobs--that's what matters to the vast majority of straight men. She has a pretty face. She wore a boy toy belt buckle; her image was "I'm a bad girl." My teenage stepbrother had posters of her all over his room. Of course she was a sex symbol.

When the nude pics from her starving artist days in NYC were published in Playboy, men were disappointed because they were "artsy" rather than raunchy (which is how she marketed herself) and her armpits were unshaven.

On some episode of Jimmy Kimmel, he played a clip of Take a Bow saying "what ever happened to THIS Madonna" and the crowd loved it. Come to think of it, she was at her most "traditionally attractive" during the Bedtime Stories/Evita era.

R32 not everyone who comments on or likes Janet is Janbot. Do you just wait on every fucking thread to attack anyone who likes Janet or thinks she’s attractive. People did and still find Janet sexy. Give it a fucking rest why are you so triggered by her.

She was a sex symbol to women and to gay men. Not as much to straight men. She was a blonde who showed a lot of skin, but not a breathy dumb blonde like the boys like.

[quote] not everyone who comments on or likes Janet is Janbot.

Whatever you say Janbot.

R34 yes she was..she finally managed to achieve some sensuality after being humbled by the Erotica/sex book backlash. No one was interested in her over the top, crass, in your face sexuality.

Erotica was basically Madonna trying and failing to outsex Sharon Stone!

The Datalounge has no real knowledge of the thoughts of "regular guys" in or out of Hollywood.

R38, The Sex Book was an ego trip for her--"Everything I say and do is sexy and the public will love me!". Like her peeing in a bowl (how the fuck is that sexy?). Or pretending to be a little girl. Or her weird, creepy writing. Somewhere between her divorce from Sean Penn and Erotica, she got in over her head. At the beginning of her career, she was less "hard" and laughed at herself constantly. During the Blonde Ambition era, she seemed to lose that.

R40 do you think she was driven by her love for Sean and was doing it to try and get him back..?everything she does seems to be very steeped in rebellion and reaction.

Yes, OP. I was 13 when her first album came out and her early heyday corresponded with my adolescence. It's well know that women of my age group studiously copied her early styles; she was an enormous influence on fashion in the 80s. But my male peers were also fans because she was "hot," and her image was very sexual. My male peers all commented on her body and particularly her breasts; she was a sex symbol in the truest sense. Any photo from that era shows a very pretty woman with a great body, wearing the hottest styles of the time because she was the one setting those trends.

Now, if a guy was a Madonna fan because he liked her music and maybe even her fashion sense, but never commented on her looks or her sex appeal, well.... you just described me and every gay Madonna fan of the 80s. Still, she was a sex symbol and men found her attractive.

When Madonna started out, she was just a very sexualized pop star with a distinctive style of her own. I think she really snagged public attention when she became a figurehead for women owning their sexuality, and being very sexual on their own terms, and rejecting the idea that being called a slut is a hurtful thing. She also always was unusually inclusive in all respects, with every kind of minority dancer and people in her videos, etc., as well as musical influences from nonwhite cultures. She found a niche for herself and I think that the Sex book and Erotica stuff was the result of a woman who had established a brand and decided to double down and dedicate her career to exploring it. It fizzled after a while, and so she figured she needed a new angle. And as soon as people started saying, Boy, she sure changes a lot! "reinvention" was established as her brand.

R40, I think it was just hard for her to get over him. I don't think it was necessarily bitterness directed AT him, I think it was bitterness over the fact that she couldn't have kids with him and she genuinely loved him. She admitted as much in Truth or Dare and wated that moment edited out.

That must have been crazy when she didn't apologize for those Playboy pics. Back then, something like that could have completely derailed her career.

R45 That's why Madonna was really admired and respected by a lot of people. She just did not abide by the convention that women should be shamed for presenting themselves sexually. Watch the interview at R22. She is really very impressive in it, regardless of how whacked out she is now.

She was not being brave about her sexuality, r45 and r46. She knew she could monetize her sexuality. That was all. No principles, only money.

[quote]Madonna has big boobs--that's what matters to the vast majority of straight men. She has a pretty face. She wore a boy toy belt buckle; her image was "I'm a bad girl." My teenage stepbrother had posters of her all over his room. Of course she was a sex symbol.

I was in high school during the Like a Virgin era, and I think this is pretty accurate. She was the fantasy of the easy blonde a teenage boy would like to think he could pick up after the game and go under the bleachers or the backseat of a car and get lucky. Her early sexy image played on fantasies horny young men already had -- while I am not sure the Sex Book/Erotica era would have fed into those existing fantasies as much.

Agree with an earlier statement that a straight boy might have fantasized about being with her -- but if he was vocal about how great her music was -- he might not be wanting to sleep with her...

Madonna only had straight guy appeal during the brief Borderline/Lucky Star/Crazy For You period.

Like A Virgin was creepy and trying too hard and she's appealed to other audiences since then.

Her appeal to teenaged boys in her prime was similar to Katy Perry's; in fact, I think that aspect of her appeal is what Perry based large part of her career on.

When I think of sex symbol - I think of a person's sex appeal alone selling tickets. Like Pam Anderson or Farrah Fawcett, or even Marilyn or Jayne Mansfield.

Sex symbol popularity is limited in scope. Madonna used sex and her body, but she wasn't a sex symbol per se. She was a pop artist who happened to use a lot of sex and imagery.

Big difference in my opinion.

Plus, she has an exceptionally hairy beaver.

[quote]When I think of sex symbol - I think of a person's sex appeal alone selling tickets.

Why do you presume this wasn't true of Madonna? Every guy I went to high school with would disagree. In the 80s, at the height of her fame and the peak of her prime, she did sell some tickets based solely on her sex appeal.

You do realize she was never all that talented, yes? No one bought a ticket to actually hear her [italic]sing.[/italic] She was always selling an image and that image always depended on sex appeal.

R53 - her songs were #1s. She was one of the biggest recording artists for 20 years. It wasn't all because she was sexy.

Many sex symbols have tried to break into pop music with no results. If her music sucked, nobody would have been there.

People went to see her, the songs, and the spectacle. Yes, she was pretty - but a lot more than a pretty face or sex symbol.

R53 Madonna was a pop star in the same way Britney is. No, people don't go to their concerts to hear great vocals. But they also don't go just to look at them. Both put on visually engaging shows and both dance well in the jazz-pop genre, for what it is. But what gets people there is that they both have really well-produced, catchy, good pop music. They're not musicians. But both made top-quality pop music that people genuinely like or even love.

It's a confection. People don't buy cotton candy for nutrition just like they don't see pop stars for inspiring vocals. And they don't buy cotton candy just to look at pretty fluff. They buy it because they enjoy it, even if it has no substance.

I remember my best straight male friend from my h.s. days stood in line to buy her "Sex" book, and rushed home thereafter to furiously masturbate to it.

R54, she wasn't just "pretty." She had a fantastic body with enormous breasts, and her image was all about sex. For straight men, which I am assuming you are not, that is the entire package.

Debbie Gibson was "pretty." She was't a sex symbol, though.

R55, are you comparing Madonna to Britney Spears and saying neither was a sex symbol??

OP, what do you mean "in the 80s and early 90s"? Straight men still find her the lithe vixen of their dreams today!

She's never been talented, so she had to ride on something. I only ever remember ONE straight male friend speaking about how attractive she was, and it was after he saw her in "Body Of Evidence". I was a gay thirteen year-ole and already knew better than to waste my money seeing a Madonna film.

"Sex Symbol" shit aside: I do genuinely like her in "Desperately Seeking Susan". But a lot of people typically have that opinion.

R43: Madonna was more of an appropriator than a reinventor. Lady Gaga (and sometimes Beyonce) justifiably gets this accusation, but Madonna was worse. She's been doing it longer.

She copied Marilyn Monroe's image many times during Like A Virgin, Who's That Girl, her Blond Ambition World Tour, and her Give Me All Your Luvin' video. She wore Marilyn's actual Bus Stop costume for the promo posters for Truth Or Dare. She duplicated several of MM's black & white photos for a spread in Vanity Fair. She copied MM's appearance (at How To Marry A Millionaire premiere) at the 1991 Oscars. Copied MM again, riding a circus elephant in a Japanese commercial.

She copied Marlene Dietrich a few times. She copied Bettie Page's pin-up photos. In the early 80s, she copied Debbie Harry. She copied Brigitte Bardot's appearance (a scene from And God Created Woman) for her Cherish video. She copied Jean Seberg's appearance (in Breathless) for her Papa Don't Preach video. Her video for This Used To Be My Playground ripped off the concept of Boy George's To Be Reborn video. Her video for Love Profusion did the same, copying Billie Piper's Honey To The Bee video. She was successfully sued by the son of deceased photographer Guy Bourdin for stealing his images for her Hollywood video.

She adopted the New Age/Cosmic trend (with bindi and henna tattoos) in the late 90s, after it was promoted by others, including Gwen Stefani. According to one of her former dancers, she performed Vogue in the style of Marie Antoinette (1990 MTV VMAs) because of the critical acclaim and awards that Dangerous Liaisons received the year before. After the film Henry & June gained notoriety, she copied its 1930s look and clothing with her photo spread in Rolling Stone magazine. After Memoirs Of A Geisha became a bestseller, she imitated the geisha aesthetic for her Nothing Really Matters video.

This idea that she's a trendsetter is a PR/media myth. She sees what is popular in some circles and copies it. She's no more an innovator than Elvis was with his appropriation of black music for white audiences. Madonna has been involved in many lawsuits for copyright infringement. That she had to pay up for several of them is proof she copied without permission. But what can you expect from a wealthy and arrogant celeb who used to get away with a lot of shit because of money and influence?

Drake was obviously smitten as he wiped his mouth with disgust after Madonna Weinsteined him onstage.

R62 I said reinvention became her brand. And it did. Brands are images. They don't need to be true. All the media represented her as a master reinventor and a marketing genius.

Trump made "business mogul" his brand, and everyone bought it even as everyone hated him. And he rode that false identity all the way to the White House, and that trip ultimately revealed his brand is a mirage, and his talent is con artistry, not business.

The same time Playboy ran her old nudes, so did Penthouse Magazine from a different photo session.

She was a rather big sex symbol at that time.

She was sexy in a kind of “I would hit that shit” way with straight guys back then. It wasn’t like a jaw dropping, erection popping appeal.

reinvent (verb): To adapt into a different form; to give a new style or image to.

She didn't take something that existed and change it up to make it her own. She copied, detail by detail. That doesn't qualify as reinvention. That's just copying.

Madonna embodied 'School Slut' energy.

She has relied on sexuality to promote her middling talent for decades. Now it’s a freak show.

I don't know how anyone can really answer this except through personal experience/anecdotes, but I've known at least a couple guys who expressed that she was hot. One in high school, around the time of the "Express Yourself" and "Vogue" videos, and another in college who admitted he watched "Body of Evidence" to get off on the sex scenes.

She obviously has had the ability to make herself look beautiful. Personally I think she reached a peak in the mid-90s, in the photographs for the "Something to Remember" album and the video for "I Want You" with Massive Attack. She wasn't too thin, but her body looked toned and voluptuous. Like a gorgeous Italian film star.

I always thought her image was rather tongue in cheek in the beginning..boy toy, material girl were sort of ironic jokes. However then something switched and she really wanted to be seen as a sex symbol and people can sense desperation... you can’t force it.

She was but she was not the same kind of sex symbol as Marilyn, Jayne Mansfield or, I don't know, Pamela Anderson. And whenever Madonna DID try to imitate Marilyn or those sex symbols of the past, it came off as either embarassing or something else entirely (in a good way--think of her image in the Material Girl video). When I think of Madonna's peak as a sex symbol, I think of Like a Prayer, Express Yourself or Justify My Love.

Even at my most young and naive, I could tell watching A League of their Own that she was not a sex symbol for men. That movie was a little bit of a lesbian mindfuck, come to think of it. Wasn't she pretty much playing Rosie's girlfriend? But it was all played straight for straight people?

Wasn't Rosie still pretending to lust over "Tommy" Cruise when she made that movie?

[quote]Madonna stole her look from the much more talented Debbie Harry.

Debbie Harry had a completely different look than Madonna.

[quote She's no more an innovator than Elvis was with his appropriation of black music for white audiences.

Oh god, this old trope. Elvis and his music was much more complicated that that lazy, simple argument.

r62 most people in show business appropriate from one thing or another. That's what many artists do. It's also why the industry is called show "business."

Some straight men enjoy the bossy, vulgar kind of woman.

I think Madonna was too aggressive for lots of straight guys. Generally, they like a softer kind of woman who’s more deferential.

R62: Then stop with this bullshit that she was an innovator or queen of reinvention. Madonna is a stunt queen businesswoman, not an artist. True artists are inspired by others but create something fresh from their inspirations. Her song writers and music producers did much of the heavy lifting. So did her backup dancers and backing vocalists at her concerts. Plus, the songs where she gets sole writing credit have some of the crappiest lyrics.

R76: Pffft! Sam Phillips was the founder of Sun Records (Elvis' first label) and producer of Elvis' earliest singles. From the book "Flowers in the Dustbin: The Rise of Rock and Roll 1947-1977":

[quote]Phillips, meanwhile, was always on the lookout for someone who could bring to a broader audience the sound of the black musicians on whom Sun focused. As Keisker (his assistant) reported, "Over and over I remember Sam saying, 'If I could find a white man who had the Negro sound and the Negro feel, I could make a billion dollars."

Oh sure, R76, you know more than the people who were there at the beginning of rock and roll.

It's funny how sexually provocative and controversial Madonna was considered in the 80s, she really shocked people. In today's world of celebrity sex tapes and many female singers who are basically glorified pole dancers, Madonna's whole "sexy" image in the 80s seems rather quaint now. I don't think her Like A Virgin performance at the MTV VMAs - so scandalous at the time - would raise an eyebrow today.

Ooops, my first paragraph at R79 was meant for R78 .

[quote]Then stop with this bullshit that she was an innovator or queen of reinvention. Madonna is a stunt queen businesswoman, not an artist. True artists are inspired by others but create something fresh from their inspirations. Her song writers and music producers did much of the heavy lifting.

There is artistry in Madonna's body of work, as many critics have attested to. She's also been praised for her songwriting skills. She's written or co-written much of her own material.

As for Sam Phillips, he was a businessman first and foremost. Elvis Presley was already pretty much fully-formed when Sam discovered him. Elvis's talent was organic and came from within, he was not created by others to fill a marketing niche.

Gen Xer here. She was a sex symbol for a minute in the mid 80s but in the way that the high school quarterback has the one slut he fucks on the side but has a pretty unslutty girlfriend he takes to prom, meet his parents and marry. By 1990 the straight boys had all moved on to Julia Roberts who was a safer more wholesome choice. And mommy approved.

Again, she was sexy to women and sexy to gay men. She represented something they want to be: overtly horny exhibitionists and unapologetic about it.

It's like women on red carpets. They don't get all dolled up like that to turn men on. They do it to earn women's esteem and envy, and to get the approval of gay men. Madonna flipped that on its head, rejecting the need for women's esteem and envy and gay men's approval, and that made women and gay men see her as a leader.

Straight guys take what they can get.

As for what turns straight guys on, I've known A LOT of guys who say that what they truly find attractive is women who don't wear a lot of makeup and are just kind of casual, and then they get titillated by stripper-y Pam Anderson types.

As I remember it, lots of straight guys loved Christie Brinkley back in the day. She was the kind of non-threatening type of pretty blonde with big tits they liked to beat their meat to.

R82:

Of course Elvis had talent, but he was an aspiring musician when Sun Records gave him his big break. They did so because he could fill a new and unused marketing niche. He took over from there, but businessman Sam Phillips opened the door for Elvis. This was already mentioned: the entertainment industry is, first and foremost, a business.

If Madonna is such a good songwriter, then she should still be able to write good songs without talented collaborators. She needs their help, now more than ever.

Patrick Leonard (co-wrote many of her hits, including Frozen):

[quote]In 1993 Pat Leonard, whose credits include Live to Tell, La Isla Bonita and Like a Prayer, told me how angry he used to get "when Madonna would say in an interview 'music isn’t a concern of mine'. Because I would think, "Well it’s a concern of somebody’s, b***h, otherwise you wouldn’t be sitting there.' Most of the time she’s just playing a game."

—from Robert Sandall (music writer) in [italic]Times Online[/italic]

Stephen Bray (co-wrote Into The Groove, True Blue, Express Yourself):

[quote] After she hit the big time, Steve went on to collaborate with Madonna on some of her biggest '80s hits including the song which would become her first UK No.1, 'Into The Groove'. However, shortly after the pair worked together on the 'Like A Prayer' album, they fell out. Bray later went onto burn his bridges with his former girlfriend by declaring her songwriting contribution as "minimal". Ouch!

—from [italic]Top Of The Pops 2[/italic] archive (bbc.co.uk)

Young girls and young gays found her sexy and mimicked her look. I don't think adults - straight or gay - found her sexy.

R87, if Patrick and Stephen really said those things, they have contradicted themselves A LOT over the past few years. They have both said that she is a great collaborator and Patrick even said he gets so angry when he hears people dismiss Madonna as "untalented".

I'm a lesbian born in 1978 and always found Madonna gross. Don't know if that answers your question OP.

R89:Contradicting themselves doesn't mean their negative statements are lies. When people were asked about working with Madonna, they said positive things of course, just as actors say complimentary things about their co-stars and directors while they're promoting their films. Then they later admit those people were difficult to work with. Madonna was very powerful and influential during her heyday. You think songwriters, DJs, producers, etc., back then would get on her bad side if they wanted to continue to have a career in the music industry?

It's telling that many of her past collaborators have not worked with her again. Her output over the last 15 years has suffered as a result. Madonna's real talent is in marketing and self-promotion. She was very shrewd in choosing imagery that would get the public's attention. But her old tricks don't work anymore.

I’m a gay guy who was born in 1978 and as a kid I thought she was fun and cool—Borderline, True Blue, Crazy For You, Like a Prayer, Cherish, etc. So many good songs.

Then during her sex/erotica era, I probably also would have summed her up as ‘gross’ and I lost all interest in her.

I was into getting into dance music and clubs when Ray of Light came out and I thought it was really interesting. It doesn’t sound so odd now, but back then such a spare single as ‘Frozen,’ and acid lines and other trance-y elements in pop music was pretty avant garde and it caught me by surprise and impressed me. And then Evita impressed me, and then Music, and I came to appreciate her as a creative person instead of a cool or gross one.

I never would have called her ‘sexy.’ Sexual and provocative, sure.

I do think she had the most sex appeal, in a refined and dignified way, as she was styled in the You’ll See, Take a Bow and other ‘Posh Madonna’ era videos. But then I am gay...

Mirwais has worked with her repeatedly, hasn’t he?

Babyface was my favorite Madonna producer. He made her voice sound lovely.

[quote] People did and still find Janet sexy.

Uh, Janbot, nobody finds Janet or Madonna sex anymore. Only someone completely out of touch would be this clueless. And really, Janet is demure and classy? In what universe!? That was true up until her Janet. album. She just got raunchier and nastier from there. The irony of the whole sex book era is that Janet accused Madonna of having no class and she even said her own music was "classier" than Madonna's. Yet it was Madonna who ended up putting her clothes on for at least the next 18 years or so while Janet just not filthier. She kept singing raunchy music long after people stopped listening to her.

[quote] When people were asked about working with Madonna, they said positive things of course, just as actors say complimentary things about their co-stars and directors while they're promoting their films. Then they later admit those people were difficult to work with.

But they said these complimentary things in the past few years. That's the exact opposite of what you just described. They have no reason to compliment her now when her career is washed up.

Madonna got in touch with Björk and offered her a chance to write a track for Bedtime Stories. Björk did not consider herself a fan of Madonna’s music, but she was intrigued by the offer and she accepted it. She wrote a song initially named "Let’s Get Unconscious", with the opening lyrics "Today is the last day, That I’m using words"—the lines being born out of Björk’s own criticism of Madonna’s aesthetic. The singer clarified, "When I was offered to write a song for [Madonna], I couldn’t really picture me doing a song that would suit her... But on second thought, I decided to do this to write the things I have always wanted to hear her say that she’s never said."

"Madonna did her own version and wrote the lyrics wrong. I can’t remember right now, but it was a really interesting mistake.

It was something like “Let’s say goodbye to logic and reason” and she got it wrong so that it actually meant the opposite….I was like, ‘Okay’…’”

R7 Straight guys in my high school were hot for Heather Locklear. I graduated in 2001, so she was fairly old by then.

R96. Then perhaps they've reassessed their opinions of her. She might've been an untalented bitch to work with and they said so at the time. Now that they're looking back at the past, perhaps they've softened their criticism by looking at her positive aspects.

This is all speculation. But let's not act like we've never said contradicting statements about the people we know.

I'm Generation X. I was there when Madonna hit the scene.

I thought she was ugly.

I thought she likely smelled bad.

Her music was too pop.

This was huge. Every girl wanted to wear her clothes, every straight boy wanted to fuck her, every gay boy wanted her attitude.

No. Hetero guys found her threatening and unhot.

I know someone who went to the University of Michigan with her. He said he and his friends knew her only as “the Italian girl who goes to all the parties.”

R100, according to people who knew her, she did smell bad once her hippy "natural" phase took over starting from late high school through her days before her debut came out. She would let her armpit hair grow out and she wouldn't wear deodorant. People wouldn't come near her on the dance floor because she smelled so bad.

Madonna's always been one of those types of people who wake up every day thinking, how do I get people talking about me today?

[quote]She was sexy in a kind of “I would hit that shit” way with straight guys back then. It wasn’t like a jaw dropping, erection popping appeal.

This bizarre insistence that a famous woman that straight men talked openly about in exclusively sexual terms was somehow [italic]not[/italic] a sex symbol, coming entirely from gay men of a certain age, is hilariously...sexist? Classist? Clueless above all else? Who the fuck knows with DL 2020 being what it is.

It’s just so FUNNY. Every guy in my high school lusted for her, her stage persona was almost literally nympho/dominatrix, and her nude photos made international headlines, but on DL she was a sexless plain jane dick wilter. Another completely delusional narrative brought to you by the bitter shut-ins of DL.

She always had a campy quality. Therefore I’m not sure she had total hetero appeal.

r106 was definitely home schooled. Posters on your bedroom wall do not count as a real high school

Debbie Gibson was sexier than Madonna.

A high school where every boy "lusted" after Madonna?

Where was this? Gayvin McGayworth High School?

One thing's for sure, I'll never understand why Debbie Harry signed to Sire records in the late 80s, because Madonna flexed her muscles and made sure DH had a minimal promo budget for her big comeback album, Def Dumb and Blonde.

She also told Mary Lambert to make Debbie look unattractive in the video for the lead single.

Debbie sarcastically said she had never looked so pretty on film in an interview for Melody Maker at the time.

Madonna also stirred up shit in 1985 when Debbie worked with Jellybean on a soundtrack song, the following solo album sessions were then aborted and Debbie ended up with a producer who had never produced another album for an artist, before or since.

I think she was a sex symbol to some men depending on her look at the time. So the short cropped hair with bushy eyebrows in the 80s was an ugly look and probably didn't garner a lot of male fandom- I'm talking the open your heart video look.

Everyone seems to universally agree that she was at her prettiest in the mid nineties with the shoulder length straight layered haircut and nineties makeup. Just because you can't remember a single kid saying she was hot doesn't mean they didn't think so. I can't remember a single straight guy saying Britney Spears was hot but I know she was popular with men.

80s Madonna had curves and definitely put out. She was sexually appealing to hetero guys.

Madonna is a stanky sociopathic void.

The guys thought Britney was smoking. Especially when the Toxic video came out. That is peak sexy Britney.

I was 13 in 1993. The guys at my school loved Pam Anderson, Denise Richards, Milla Jovovich, Liv Tyler, Sarah Michelle Gellar, and (as someone mentioned above) Heather Locklear - plus a myriad of porn stars. Madonna was on the outs and seen as a try-hard by then. She was always interesting, but I don't think she was ever really jerk off material even in her prime.

I agree that it was older men who found her sexually interesting.

And who keeps saying she has enormous tits? They're pretty average.

Young straight guys certainly weren't into Madonna's music in the 80s. They were all about those hideous white trash hair metal bands. That hair metal shit was the absolute nadir of popular music, but it was HUGE with young straight guys back then.

Can’t say I was ever a fan of her music, and didn’t find her overly-sexualized persona attractive at all. However, she was really cute in A League Of Their Own, she’s got a pretty face in the right context. As others have said, I don’t think most straight guys were particularly into her outside of the novelty she brought to MTV.

R116, 1993 was 10 years after Madonna's first fame, and she was already in her late 20s then. I think the 80s were her main sex symbol days.

And yes, her boobs are big, not average. Most women with boobs that big are fat or have implants.

[quote]I don't think she was ever really jerk off material even in her prime.

Says someone who was 5 years old when Madonna was EVERYWHERE for being a sexy slut breaking all the barriers

You all have pretty high standards for what you think straight guys find hot/sexy. I'm sure there are even straight guys today (a small few) who jerk it to CURRENT Madonna.

Don't know about sex symbol, but Madonna in early 1990's was very attractive when she put her mind to it; or was styled well.

The reaction of Drake when she kissed him was shocking for me," who doesn't want Madonna?" I thought he could be gay, but then I realized she was just getting to old for straight men to like her.

The reaction of Drake when she kissed him was shocking for me," who doesn't want Madonna?" I thought he could be gay, but then I realized she was just getting to old for straight men to like her.

The only time I ever found her hot was in her Justify My Love video. Otherwise she was just tits.

I grew up in the late 80s/early 90s when Madonna had short black hair...the Rain/I'll Remember/Human Nature period. I was a wee gayling but still thought she was sexy/sexual. I thought her light blue eyes with the jet black hair was very alluring. I also thought when she was wearing that sheer lace top in Vogue was very sexy when you could totally see her boobs.

She was always considered low class. When those nudes came out of her hairy anus, it confirmed she was Burger King trash from Detroit.

R97 Love the Björk story.

She had a pussy and she wasn't afraid to use it. If that's a sex symbol, then you have your answer

Did anyone mention Madonna was a whore?

My straight Jewish friends liked her music and thought she was sexy but then they thought she was a skank.

My str8 druggie friend saw Sheena Easton’s Bally’s Gym commercial on TV while we were skipping 8th grade class and said “She is sooo hot!”

R106 Exactly. I came a little later, but my brother and his friends all wanted to fuck her during her EROTICA era circa 1990-1993, which was her bombshell era. I don't know why DL is trying to rewrite history.

I liked her tits in Body of Evidence. Jacked off to that image multiple times. But I was a kid and didn't follow Hollywood.

The funny thing is, she looked best when she had her own look (Borderline, Crazy For You, Like a Virgin, Lucky Star, Express Yourself, Vogue videos). When she tried to look like Marilyn Monroe she looked terrible because she has a hard face and strong eyebrows.

Not one straight man I have ever met thinks or has ever thought she was hot. They think of her as a non-entity and her music didn't appeal to them in any way. She was always a "yeah, she's fuckable, I guess" sort of appeal to them.

Her personality sucks, her exceedingly average dance moves, music and face shoved in our faces for the past 20 years was the slow drip of poison for good music. She wasn't even good pop/dance music. I'm glad she's disappearing from our lives and with her the awful boy band autotuned crap from the early 2000s. Go away! Good riddance!

R106, R134 It's hard to get an objective opinion from most people on here about Madonna. She has several trolls and is disliked or hated by most of the posters here.

She was a sex symbol, especially in the 80s and 90s. Hell, probably beyond that by some. I'm sure she intimidated a lot men with her overt sexuality and hard personality, but a good amount found her to be sexy also.

Playboy, Penthouse Celebrity Skin and Celebrity Sleuth published old nudes of several times, and Playboy had her listed on their yearly sex symbol feature for just about every year of the 80s and 90s pretty much. And then there were the regular magazines having features on her including clothed provocative photos of her. Her Sex book sold out in record time and she starred in Basic Instinct rip off, Body of Evidence, where she was often nude and had several sex scenes. Would they have all done that if there were no buyers? Nope.

Madonna only appealed to teenage girls and gay guys. Straight guys viewed her as a desperate mediocre looking girl always seeking attention. They had better options for their spank bank.

[quote]Madonna only appealed to teenage girls and gay guys.

Really? In her early years, she appealed to most every young person. That is why she hit it big. You don't become a worldwide superstar by just appealing to a certain demographic, especially back then. Only in the '90s, did he start to appeal mainly to women and gay men. Fact is, Madonna was considered sexy in the '80s and even made People's 50 Most Beautiful People in the World. Methinks a lot of gays on here don't realize how straight men think. In short, ANY woman who is hypersexual is very appealing to them!

Also, I think many of those who claim she was not considered sexy are far-left SJWs who hate white women, especially blondes. You know how SJWs try to rewrite history.

Blonds? She's not blond. If you consider peroxide and blond wigs blond, then yes, she's blond.

[quote] Once Sheena Easton and Belinda Carlisle grew out their tragic tomboyish early 80s hairstyles, their beauty shined.

What is it with your generation and hatred of women with short hair? I see this all the time. Belinda Carlisle looked cute with her hair.

Those of you raving about her fantastic body should know that she had her naturally droopy funbags (not naked, but on display in "Desperately Seeking Susan" and elsewhere) redone before "Erotica" and the SEX book. If I could find before and after photos, I'd post them here. The difference is quite extraordinary.

I do think she lost a lot of her straight male following around the time of "Erotica" and SEX, ironically. The visuals were too fetishistic, too dark, too campy, too "gay" for unimaginative young straight guys, and the music was not interesting to them at all.

She got a snatch, don't she?

So does your mom, but she ain't in our spank bank either r148

One of the scenes in SUSAN featuring Madge and her rather droopy natural tits. You really have to watch the film to see them in motion.

She's not at all fat, but she's nowhere near as slim and taut as she would be in just a couple of years. All in all, an incredibly AVERAGE body.

And a few years later, in SEX....

That torso is taut.

One of her "artist's modeling" pix, probably late 70s.

In the 90’s, I don’t remember any straight guys mentioning she was hot or would fuck her, but they always called her a slut and thought she was a joke. They used to talk about wanting to fuck women like Pamela Anderson or one of the girls on 90210.

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